Report 1137
Report #1137 Skillset: Illusions Skill: Illusion Org: Spiritsingers Status: Completed May 2013 Furies' Decision: We will remove the eq cost on illusions and implement a cooldown. It will affect both classes. Problem: Bards have always been prevented from using the Illusion skill in combat due to it being an equilibrium consuming skill, plus halting bardic combat in order to throw out an illusion can often interrupt or go against momentum. Mages however have been able to capitalize on it with psionics due to Psi balances being different from equilibrium. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Allow, for BARDS only, to cast illusions on a seperate (illusion balance) balance. Also change Illusion to be a targeted ability, ie. WEAVE ILLUSION . 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Allow, for BARDS only, Illusions to require, but not consume equilibrium, but have a cooldown period. Also change Illusion to be a targeted ability, it. WEAVE ILLUSION . Player Comments: ---on 4/8 @ 18:58 writes: I don't support this. Fewer illusions in combat is better than more illusions in combat. ---on 4/9 @ 23:58 writes: Supported. Kind of weird bards have never been able to use illusions as intended. ---on 4/10 @ 00:32 writes: I'd rather address the fact that this ability do not require to be targetted so you can harass peopls without declaring ---on 4/10 @ 03:24 writes: I'd be happy with making the ILLUSION skill a targetted skill in order to prevent Shuyin's points if that is something others would be happy with, since you could still use IMPROVED as a roomwide illusion. Thoughts? ---on 4/10 @ 03:35 writes: If we moved illusions to its own balance for both bards and mages, would this be an untoward benefit to mages? It seems like it wouldn't be, insofar that Psionics already allows this, and would only benefit their other, "weaker" terts. Am I correct in that presumption? (On the idea we'd do it at all - I find the premise nervous personally, but I'm still forming an opinion) ---on 4/10 @ 05:57 writes: I put down bards only because, at the moment the psionics users can use psionics attacks AND illusions because psionics has its own balance leaving EQ free to use for illusions. If we Made illusions also have its own balance, it would open psionics users up to use another attack alongside their three psionics attacks and eq attack, which I saw as too much. Where as bards would only be able to use their one EQ attack alongside an illusion should it just be an illusion balance for bards. ---on 4/12 @ 13:32 writes: I was under the impression most EQ attacks do not work off channel balance and that illusions are their own exception, working while off any balance. I don't really see any issue with an illusion balance, so long as it's the same length of time as the current equilibrium cost. That said, can we discuss a bit more if bards really need illusions for their offense? I feel as if only telepathy really -needs- it, of all skillsets in the game and am not entirely convinced that bards need the ability to throw off curing an extra bit in tandem with their offense. Bards can still use illusions, just that it's far more limited than a mage can, but still useful in situations. ---on 4/12 @ 23:40 writes: Telepaths need illusions more than bards? That's a strange perspective. Mages are much better off than bards (not to say bards are bad). ---on 4/14 @ 00:11 writes: Well, a telepath is really not going to mindburst you without illusions. I'd say of the two psionic tertiaries, telepathy requires more individual skill and knowledge of curing nuances than telekinesis. ---on 4/14 @ 01:24 writes: I wasn't really discussing tk vs tp. You stated telepathy needs illusions to function, but bards do not. Which is an odd statement and implies TP mages are worse off than bards. ---on 4/16 @ 02:57 writes: Yeah, please make all illusion syntaxes targetted to avoid harassment through Avechna. ---on 4/16 @ 04:53 writes: Solutions changed to reflect Envoy comments. ---on 4/17 @ 22:45 writes: Strongly DISAGREE with forcing illusions to be targetted. Illusions are not dramaturgy and removing the utility of the skill for story-telling/RP purposes seems like overkill. Bards are supposed to be master storytellers/masters of the stage. I could see adding an option to make it a targetted illusion in exchange for no equi/balance consumption, so long as the regulation option still remains for use outside of combat. ---on 4/18 @ 00:25 writes: How are you removing the utility of the skill for story-telling/RP purposes? Because you have to declare? If you want to address a room, then is it really too much of a hassle to fire the illusion to each person? ---on 4/18 @ 19:35 writes: I do think it would be a hassle to fire an illusion at every single person, especially if you are doing a large ceremony (such as guild advancement ritual, order ritual, graduation for those who don't have spiffy mechanical guild advancements built in yet, guild rite etc.) You can get quite a crowd and I don't see the point in removing a pleasurable use of illusions when we don't have a major problem with it today. ---on 4/19 @ 01:22 writes: You can still use IMPROVED for room wide storytelling if you want to. I was just talking about the ILLUSION skill only to be targetted. ---on 5/1 @ 13:51 writes: As long as IMPROVED does not require needing to be targetted, I'm fine with either 1 or 2, though they're essentially the same thing. ---on 5/2 @ 20:22 writes: I've seen some really nice performances and ceremonies that were nicely accented with illusions. But they were done with improved illusions so they could have color and stuff. But I'm with Kregarn as long as improved illusions are left open for artistic uses I don't object. ---on 5/11 @ 00:49 writes: Targeted illusions might be a bit of a buff though, since they won't hit allies. ---on 5/13 @ 13:13 writes: I like the idea of making illusioning on its own separate balance, more so to support dreamweaving mages than anything. I dislike the idea of making it targeted. Illusions have already been nerfed quite substantially with the prevalence of affmessages such that very few things are going to work on a competent system. This proposed change would further diminish the usefulness of illusions as a solution to a problem I have not seen (the effective use of illusions without declaring). ---on 5/16 @ 00:52 writes: In reference to your earlier comment, Celina, I do believe Telepathy mages are worse than bards. I have no hesitation in saying that. Telepathy has been lacking for quite a while and the only time I've ever seen it be viable 1v1 was in the old aeromancer demesne with miasma coupled with the use of very intelligent illusions. Even then, if one was good enough to ignore them, he was practically immune to the kill. Bards don't have that problem since their kill method works on most, if not all people and has been working fine for years without help from illusions. I still maintain giving a glamours bard illusions in tandem with their offense doesn't really feel like a needed offensive buff. As it is, the weave command isn't entirely useless to a bard, it just isn't going to be used as mages use it now. ---on 5/20 @ 18:44 writes: I think this might have unintended consequences with mages, but what the hell, lets try it ---on 5/23 @ 18:01 writes: I'm confused by the comments mentioning any changes for mages, due to the fact that only illusions and dissolve can be done in conjunction with Psionics. Overall, I'd rather Illusions be phased entirely out of combat. With smarter systems, the latest change to gmcp in regards to players in your room and aff messages, illusions are losing any viability. Pile on guild/skill checking on a person in an illusion if you want and there's little illusions can do.